Steve, that’s a lot of things to heft onto an administration that is now just half a year old. Some of it is your politics, which is a fair position. We hold different positions on those issues because of our independent political philosphies and life stories. While the underlying issues I think we agree on (too high a debt, government involvement in private business, need for reform in healthcare), our take on the neccessity and potential outcomes differ.

Because (I think) I see good people (the average protestors) with good intentions (the debt and deficit coupled with the Federal Reserve “unreserving” is very worrying) being used for other purposes (larger attacks on the administration and its other programs). And that bothers me.

There you reveal your blind-spot. The protests are, in general, opposing the growth of 1)the federal government 2)deficit spending and 3)taxation to support #1 & #2. The fact that the people opposing these things oppose an administration that’s given use little more than promises, trillion dollar deficits and massive federal intervention into major sectors of the economy (finance, manufacturing, energy and health care) should not be surprising, much less a sign of some larger entity channeling the discontent to other ends. frankly, it would be bizarre if anyone at a Tea Party did not support “larger attacks on the administration and its other programs.”

I know health care reform is a pet issue of yours, but the fact that the fiscal hawks in the tea parties appose its current incarnation has more to do with a 1.6 Trillion dollar price tag, federal power grabs, and a disturbing aversion to daylight in Congress than it does any pernicious influence by lobbying groups.

As for sleazy connections you could spend your time persuing, instead of worrying about connections in protest parties, which hold no power, why not check out the connections between ACORN, SEIU, GOLDMAN-SACHS AND THE ADMINISTRATION. Do you realize how many members of the board of Goldman-Sachs now work in the administration? Goldman-Sachs, the folks that bought AIG. You know why the government wouldn’t give Lehman Bros any of the bailout money? Because they were Goldman-Sachs biggest competitors and people fromt the board of Goldman-Sachs are now making the decisions as to where the money is spent.

IMO, those are much more worthy ties to make, since those folks actually hold power and control government and money distribution. The tea parties are not doing anything but protesting.

I see more involvement by these groups in directing the protests than I think you do. I could be wrong in my assessment, a view aided by many of those “leftist public interest organizations and blogs.”

As to why is it important to me? Because (I think) I see good people (the average protestors) with good intentions (the debt and deficit coupled with the Federal Reserve “unreserving” is very worrying) being used for other purposes (larger attacks on the administration and its other programs). And that bothers me.

he funding doesn’t need to be direct, it could just be enough to make sure everybody knows to have a protest on April 15 and July 4 and what to have it about. Get the word out through communication routes (news, newsletters, other organizations and social networks) and stir up the conversation on the national stage.

So it is impossible to have any sort of national-level grass-roots protest because any such enterprise requires a level of organization that automatically renders it “Atroturf” by these definitions.

I’m afraid I take issue with the conclusions you draw. The fact is, you’ve taken a position defining grass roots vs. Astroturf in such a way as to render the terms meaningless. We no longer even have to have direct involvement by some overarching lobbying group, all they have to do is sit on the sidelines and claim credit and “frame the debate.”

In case you haven’t noticed, that’s what think tanks do, their job is to “frame the debate.” That’s what the media does, what politicians do. . . And resorting to saying “well they named the damn thing,” come on. People have been calling Tax Protests tea parties since at least the seventies. It’s not a new term. And I’ll take a wild ass guess that when Rick Santelli melted down on the trading floor he came up with the same idea all on his own.

Why is it so important to draw the distinction? Why is it important to the left that a dozen people picketing in Providence are part of some vast conspiratorial network? (You know what we used to call those networks? Political parties)

(BTW- “irony,” your comment exactly mirrors the old right-wing comment about the anti-war protesters picketing the very institutions that allow them the freedom to protest. Sorta how our country works.)

I believe I have addressed the arguments at issue on my blog. Unfortunately I don’t think we’ve seen each other in the flesh since January, but I think you know my views on these issues.

“and b) a security blanket used to reassure oneself that there’s no way so many people actually hold these opposing views, they all must have been bought off.”

Again, see my comments above that I know you and your wife, and many people who attended those “parties”, hold your opinions honestly. I know there are subtle differences between the main movement and your own opinions.

Also, as you may see, I’m not arguing that you’re being “bought off” (as in a paid actor), but that your discontent and dissent is being channeled and framed by others.

And, yes, we did have a rally. It was organized locally (if you can call it organized). They asked for extra police coverage (I’m Chairman of Safety). And as I’ve noted elsewhere, protesting excessive government spending on a day where I would have to pay an officer double-time to baby-sit the protest is at the very least ironic.

Just as your husband believes I’m being mislead by those “progressive leftist public interest organizations and blogs” and being a tool about it (and he may be right), that is at same the level that I believe you are being lead as well.

There was a template set up, even a name, for the protest even before you organized it. There was a common date and principles. That’s what’s known as organization, there were thousands of parties, as you say, all on the same day. The funding doesn’t need to be direct, it could just be enough to make sure everybody knows to have a protest on April 15 and July 4 and what to have it about. Get the word out through communication routes (news, newsletters, other organizations and social networks) and stir up the conversation on the national stage. Viral marketing techniques.

And just like I participated in an Anti-War protest, I can’t claim it was grassroots organized (as it was organized by my Union and scheduled to take place the same weekend as other protests around the country, although my local was responsible for organizing and getting all the permits here in Cleveland).

My post all started with researching Patients United Now. As I dug deeper into it’s background I started seeing connections to other groups, most of which lead back to Koch Industries. That lead to American’s for Prosperity and their claim (and others making the claim) they were connected to and pushing the Tea Parties (http://www.americansforprosperity.org/search/node/tea+party – and note, Steve, their use of “Tea Party”, although not the name of the actual protest as far back as 2007 – even 2006 calling for a “Second Great American Tea Party”, far before the grassroots the CSM points to).

But it is sort of what happens when you start this whole Astroturf nonsense. WTF? Why is it that a guy getting together 250 people from his basement is legit only insofar as neither he nor any of the people he organizes have no contact with some larger outside group? Someone downloads sign ideas from the internet, Astroturf. Someone participates on an online-forum, Astroturf. Someone speaks at a rally who has ties to something or other, Astroturf. Someone buys a T-shirt from Cafe-Press, Astroturf.

It’s a meaningless term that only serves as a) an attack on an opposing POV that doesn’t address the argument at issue and b) a security blanket used to reassure oneself that there’s no way so many people actually hold these opposing views, they all must have been bought off.

DUDE – I was ON the planning committee for the SOLON tea party. You know, the one with Steve in the picture. IT WAS NOT FUNDED BY ANY ORGANIZATIONS. Also, of all the people I talked to that day, no one had EVER protested before but EVERYONE said they couldn’t stand by and watch their country be destroyed. And there WERE BLACK PEOPLE AT THE SOLON TEA PARTY. By the way, the police department told us if we had more than 25 people show up we would have the biggest protest in Solon HISTORY. WE HAD 250 SHOW UP. SOME WERE BLACK, SOME WERE CHINESE, SOME WERE (GASP) WHITE. Somehow the white people DISCREDIT the movement? WHATEVER.

There were rallies in Solon, Cleveland, Medina, Ravenna, Bainbridge, Chardon, Ashtabula, etc., etc. I bet there was even a rally in your little oasis of ORWELL – Yep, I just checked and it was held at 62 N Maple Street, Orwell, OH 44076. I assume you know where that is, I don’t.

Trying to say the THOUSANDS of tea parties across the country on both April 15th and July 4th were funded by some corporation and therefore not ‘grassroots’ is just BULLSHIT and you know it. It’s FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Someone in my family has a saying that I agree with: “I have 2 fears, one is that we are heading towards another civil war. The other fear is that we’re not.”

Peter William – Since you are in the healthcare field, I would like to hear more about your take on the healthcare bill.

I wonder where they’ll find help with organizing their national coalition?

Notice that the organizers also only stopped inviting conservative speakers when that connection was pointed out and organizers remembered that, hey, those conservative politicians brought about a lot of this debt themselves.

As for the racial composite of the protests, I may have mis-remembered a blog post or rebuttal, so I apologize for making that comment here.

The movement did not begin, as is often thought, with MSNBC reporter Rick Santelli’s famous on-air rant against government bailouts at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on Feb. 19, but several weeks earlier, when blogger Keli Carender organized a small protest against the stimulus bill in Seattle and homeschooling mom Amanda Grosserode organized a similar one in Overland Park, Kan. The cause was subsequently taken up by conservative bloggers such as Michelle Malkin.

The protests gained nationwide attention when Fox cable news network heavily covered the April 15 events.

Though supported by Republican think tanks, it is a grass-roots movement comprised of independents, conservatives, and libertarians, many say. Few attending these events have protested before, says Donalsonville, Ga., organizer Becky Worsham, adding, “A common joke at our first one was, ‘Gosh, I’ve never protested anything in my life, and this feels pretty good.’ ”

But what do they know?

No, that wasn’t in the original blog post, but I didn’t think a racial breakdown was the point.
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as for this:

What I was pointing out was the movement was started and funded by a lobbying group which is attempting to hide behind “grassroots” (and tell me if looking at the Americans for Prosperity and Patients United Now websites you see them claim anything other than “grassroots”) but are really astroturf.

Dude, you’re buying into a bill of goods if you believe that somehow “Americans for Prosperity” orchestrated all this. I could spam this post with literally hundreds of links to different events all over the country and trying to blame one pissant think-tank for all of this is giving them a hell of a lot more credit than they deserve. You’re playing the same guilt-by-association game that partisan GOP twits use to blame every single anti-war protest on George Soros and every Obama rally on ACORN and the SEIU.